15 Responses to “Ya Imam, Tear Down This Wall!”

1. Author	Date	Comment
   Durriyyah	February 20th, 2010 7:12 am	It's interesting… I was just at a halaqa the other day where a Shaykh was talking about this. We have a balcony with a glass half-wall at the front and women normally pray there for Jummah, just because of space constraints, but can otherwise pray downstairs if they wish. I enjoy having the balcony there so that way I can have privacy while remaining in the masjid, and women who are breastfeeding can have the privacy they wish as well. The Shaykh was mentioning that it is incorrect to forbid the sisters from being in other parts of the masjid, but that the masjid should be thoughtful enough where they give a sister the privacy she may need without her needing to leave the place of worship. Allahu Alim.

2. Author	Date	Comment
   Sonia	February 20th, 2010 12:37 pm	Its interesting that you bring this up, because during the last Jummah one of the sisters brought to everyone's attention that during the salaah itself the video of the imaam on the TV shuts down (you can view him on the TV during the khutbah but as soon as we stand in salaah TV turns off). It would be hard for us all to stand behind the imaam physically since our masjid has 3 floors, and women (also men in the front part of the room) are in the main floor while imaam and men in the upper floor. So one of the sisters was voicing her displeasure that masjid shuts of the transmission of salaah although we can hear the audio. Prior to this I had no idea. But yes, I have been to masjids where women are in completely separate room with not even a TV transmission of the prayer. Too much culture gets mixed into practice of Islaam.

3. Author	Date	Comment
   Amina	February 22nd, 2010 11:19 pm	Asalamu aliakum :) I personally am quite comfortable with the masjids I go to which tend to follow a similar style that durriyyah mentioned- balcony style masjids. We can see the men underneath us, (in come cases entirely clearly, in others, not very clearly) but they can't see us. One masjid where you can see the men quite clearly (in my opinion) is the Masjid in Mecca. When I went there, I was really annoyed actually that I could see them because they could also see me…that meant, I had to keep my niqaab on the ENTIRE time(remember, there are schools of thought that believe niqab is obligatory…I'm starting to reach that point, lol). Not only was it uncomfortable to me (come on, you want a break some time!), I also felt that it stood in the way of making friends with other sisters. Imagine trying to say hello to a sister whose completely dressed in black- and you can't see anything but her eyes. I know that I give off a FORMIDABLE impression which is NOT my personality at all. That's why I take my niqaab off immediately when I enter a masijd (that is divided in some way) and smile away at my lovely sisters. Not only that, but reading the Qur'an, for me at least, is very tiresome with the niqaab on. That's why I like it the way it is. I understand that there are scholarly opinions on this issue and I in no way presume to be a scholar, but the comfort I experienced in Medinah (where the Masjid Al Nabawi is divided) compared to the discomfort I experienced in Mecca, just makes me agree with the sisters who say that it's better this way :)

4. Author	Date	Comment
   khadi	February 23rd, 2010 9:19 am	I love the partition. I do not want to see the men. I want to feel free in my masjid and not have to watch myself all the time. I want to be able to laugh and to smile, and not have someone to remind me that I should be discreet. I do not want to have to wear a niqab because men are staring at me. No, I will rise to keep the partition but women in this sense: one place for privacy for women who want it, one place for men who want it (not all men are unmodest, by the way) and the rest, for everyone. Instead of tearing the partition down (unless it is done because as repression/oppression against us women, like we are so kind of evils to be avoided at all cost), it is the duty of the imaams to educate their congregation about the right of the road, and one of these rights , and one of these rights is to lower the gaze. After all, in the time of the Prophet, sallalahu aleihi wa salam, there was no free mixing, but the women were praying at the back. As t he hadith goes, the best rows for men are the firsts, and for the women, the last.

5. Author	Date	Comment
   Umm Hend	February 23rd, 2010 9:20 am	My feelings on this are that there should be the option of both taking into full account the comfort, privacy and haya (modesty) of the women, the sunnah (practice of the prophet peace be upon him) and space constraints. Some masajid do it well and some don't.

6. Author	Date	Comment
   khadi	February 23rd, 2010 9:22 am	sorry about the typos for my comment above. I could not find the preview button. wa aleikoum salam wa rahmatoullah wa barakatou

7. Author	Date	Comment
   Umm Hend	February 23rd, 2010 10:38 am	No apology necessary sis! If I'm allowed typos (and I am) then you are too :)

8. Author	Date	Comment
   Jessica Dawah	February 23rd, 2010 2:07 pm	Wa Alaykum Salaam, Sisters. Believe me, I *know* what it feels like to WANT a partition. Umm Hend, I believe I told you the story, but my memory has slipped me. For those who I haven't told; my first ever trip to the Masjid was traumatizing and I hated it. I went to a Masjid and walked into the prayer room where no partition existed. Everyone, men and women stared at me. Men were sitting sideways against the wall facing the male and female entrances and could easily see us coming in. Never in my life had I felt so alien and uncomfortable. I couldn't even focus on the kutbah I was so upset. The only thing I could think of is how silly I was to be against the partition. But the more I read and the more I learned, I know it's not about what I want. What I want and what Allah has prescribed for me, or what the Sunnah of Muhammed dictates can be something entirely different. "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." 2:216 The same concept applies here. Had the partition came forth from the wisdom of Allah and Muhammed its presence in the Masjid would have been there since day one; but this is not the case. So I pose the same question: Did Muslims, including our Prophet, for the first 1300 years get this separation issue wrong?

9. Author	Date	Comment
   Mariam	February 24th, 2010 9:18 am	Jessica: I find this article intersting but I'm not entirely convinced…Why? Because of the Prophet's hadith: "A woman came to the Prophet (sallah Allah 3alyhee wa salam) and said, "O Messenger of Allah, I love to pray with you." He said, "I know that you love to pray with me. [But] your prayer in the most secluded area of your home is better for you than your prayer in your room. Your prayer in your room is better than your prayer in your home. Your prayer in your home is better for you than your prayer in the Mosque of your people. Your prayer in the Mosque of your peopls is better for you than your prayer in my Mosque". (pg. 173 from "Crucial Matters in the Life of a Muslim") Of course, I'm aware that the Prophet also warned everyone not to prohibit women from going to mosques but the hadith mentioned before highlights the difference between what is acceptable and what is considered even better. I'm not going to deny that still some women would pray behind the men during the Prophet's time. However, not only did they pray behind the men so that they could not be seen BUT the men used to exit from the prayer quickly so that the women could leave the mosque without being noticed. So what is my point? That if we truly want to practice the Sunnah, we should truly want to follow what the Prophet described as the best kind of prayer…and for women, that is simply in their own homes. :) Wa Allah A3lam.

10. Author	Date	Comment
    UmmIn	February 24th, 2010 9:01 pm	I never thought about this before, but now you made me think ;) mashaallah. I actually like the partition in mosques because I would feel sooo strange if it wasn't there. I don't like praying where men can see me. And I understand Amina's view that the sisters feel more open and can BF – one thing I never thought about either. Personally I think it is sad that only a few women go to the mosque and I'm afraid that it the partition wasnät there even less would go.

11. Author	Date	Comment
    Jessica Dawah	February 25th, 2010 2:48 pm	Assalamu Alaykum Sister Mariam, that is a lovely hadith you have quoted me. What I like most about it is that it defines the priority differences between men and women. For men, it is fard for them to attend Jummah prayer. This is their duty to Allah and to themselves. For women, Allah did not put this duty upon our already countless duties within the home especially if we have children. We are the maintainers of the home. Essentially, we "are" the home. The home is where children learn, where relationships grow and blossom, the home is a place of worship, comfort, love…etc. We *are* the foundation of this Ummah, because this is how our community grows. By barricading ourselves (willingly or unwillingly) in a separate room away from the Jamaat we are taking the Umm out of Ummah. Yes, it is *better for us* (these words are essential) to pray at home. And while it may be better for us, emphasis on doing so was never on a scale of adding a partition to give us an example, or remove us from the Masjid entirely by Allah, Muhammed, or the rightly guided Caliph's after him. ———– Here is a good example. We are all aware of the story where a woman stood up in the Masjid and corrected a decision of Umar regarding the dowry, yes? For those who aren't familiar here is a section of the story below: "…Umar forbade the people from paying excessive dowries and addressed them saying: "Don't fix the dowries for women over forty ounces. If ever that is exceeded I shall deposit the excess amount in the public treasury". As he descended from the pulpit, a flat-nosed lady stood up from among the women audience, and said: "It is not within your right". Umar asked: "Why should this not be of my right?" she replied: "Because Allah has proclaimed: 'even if you had given one of them (wives) a whole treasure for dowry take not the least bit back. Would you take it by false claim and a manifest sin'". (Al Nisa, 20). When he heard this, Umar said: "The woman is right and the man (Umar) is wrong…." http://www.islamfortoday.com/womens_rights_refere… (under asserting women's rights) Ask yourself, what if there had been a partition present during this incident where this particular woman had to write a note quick enough to have it passed to the men and then finally make it to Umar and then have the possibility to even respond? Now ask yourself what would happen if this incident happened today. Partition or not. How would the response be different? I'm not looking for an answer, but a reflection.

12. Author	Date	Comment
    Mariam	February 26th, 2010 1:07 am	Asalaam 3alaykum, Sister Jessica: That's a great point mashaAllah! I've always loved hearing that story about the woman who questioned Omar's(Raddiya Allah 3anhoo) judgment because it shows that no one is above Allah's Laws and we all make mistakes and need to be reminded once in a while. I understand your concern more now. I do think that are other methods though that can be used. I know in my segregated university what we would do whenever we had a Khateeb visit (or some important Islamic lecturer), we'd agree with him before the lecture to give us about 15 minutes at the end to ask questions and get any clarifications. During the lecture, we would pass around a number of papers and any woman who had a question would write it down. At the end of the lecture, we would gather the papers and give them to the Khateeb who would then address our issues. (This was also a good method because if someone was shy and didn't want to draw attention to herself, she had the opportunity to remain anonymous but still express her concern. Moreover, if anyone had something to say that was critical, the Khateeb didn't feel like he was being attacked in front of the entire audience and instead was able to correct himself while saving face.) We don't even have to use papers today- here, in the KSA, female students who have male professors are kind of hooked up with this screen to see the professor. (The female students are completely separated from the male professors) Telephones are put at both ends (classrooms) so if a student has a question, she just picks up the phone and asks away. (Now, whether or not you think this is a good educational tool, we could still use this in the mosque.) It seems that a lot of women are comfortable with a partition. Yet, you pose an important point. I think these methods might find a balance so that neither side feels they have to sacrifice. Wa Allah A3lam. :D

13. Author	Date	Comment
    Amina	February 26th, 2010 1:42 am	Asalamu aliakum wa rahmat Allah wa barkatoo, MashaAllah, some new and thought provoking points have been brought up. This is really turning into an interesting discussion :) Something I think that we should think about is that the during the Prophet Sallah Allahoo alyhee wa salam's time, they didn't have the technology we have today. For example, there were no speakers or microphones. It would have been difficult for women and men to be separated and for both sides to have heard the khutbah clearly. Today, it's different. What I guess I'm trying to say is do we really know the reason why the women prayed behind the men during the Prophet's time? Obviously, some scholars, like the one in this article, believe they did that in the spirit of jamaat. But perhaps other scholars think differently (since they continue to call for the partition): perhaps they believe it was done becuase of the lack of technology and space available at the time (if you have been to the masjid Al Nabawi, you will see the original Masjid was really small in size)….Perhaps, these scholars thought that since the Prophet said that a woman should pray in a seculded area and that the worst lines for the women are the closest to the men, certain scholars felt, it would be best for the women to get more ajr to make them secluded… I think we should hear a little about when the first partitions came into existence and what were the scholars' reasons and evidences for it. Also, I think that in certain parts of the Arab world, at least, it wouldn't really make sense to tear down the walls since there are walls everywhere. As Mariam pointed, in KSA, the education is separate. Hospitals, restaurants, even some cashier lines in stores, etc. are segregated. It would be very strange if the masjids weren't. Women would probably never then go…they'd probably feel very exposed. I don't know, though, but just saying. Just wanna say, Jazaki Allah koli khair. I've learned a lot, actually from this article.

14. Author	Date	Comment
    sisterinhijab	February 28th, 2010 9:29 am	I prefer the partitioned women's area with a good view of the Imam like the balcony style. I can't remember ever praying in a mosque with both men and women praying in the same space except open air Eid prayers, with men in front and women at the back. Whenever I hear this "remove partition thing", I find it strange. I am still yet to be convinced and I don't think the hadith given are enough prove that there was no partition during the life of the prophet nor enough to prove not to have them now. Neither do I believe having partition has anything to do with equality. Men and women are equal in matters of the deen in the presence of Allah(swt). But we are physically different, hence our capability are different. I will not feel comfortable with men staring at me while praying neither would I want to look at men praying. If I am occupying the same praying space with them this will happen, no matter how much you try to avoid it. That means you will spend most of your prayers trying to avoid your eyes falling on the wrong place, instead of concentrating on the essence of your Salat. I am all for partition but not for closing off women in the back corner away from the main mosque. I think women should be asking for spacious praying space with a good view of the Imam not the same praying space as men.

15. Author	Date	Comment
    Lana	July 27th, 2010 2:17 am	If Muslims reached a point where they cannot constrain themselves "sexually" while praying, in the house of GOD, around fully dressed and covered women, when women line's are behind men lines, and when men's rows aren't even mixed with women… then people i would say it's a DISASTER. maybe someone has to perscribe us some medicine or soemthing

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